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	<title>Comments on: SF Goes McDonald&#8217;s: Less Taste, More Gristle</title>
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	<link>http://scienceinmyfiction.com/2010/03/08/sf-goes-mcdonalds-less-taste-more-gristle/</link>
	<description>&#34;I like a little science in my fiction&#34;</description>
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		<title>By: clew</title>
		<link>http://scienceinmyfiction.com/2010/03/08/sf-goes-mcdonalds-less-taste-more-gristle/comment-page-1/#comment-8162</link>
		<dc:creator>clew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/simf/?p=295#comment-8162</guid>
		<description>&quot;Folksy, ignorant president? Heard of the Democrat Jimmy Carter?&quot;

Yes. His BS was from Georgia Tech. Moreover: &quot;Chosen by Admiral Hyman Rickover for the nuclear submarine program, he was assigned to Schenectady, N.Y., where he took graduate work at Union College in reactor technology and nuclear physics, and served as senior officer of the pre-commissioning crew of the Seawolf, the second nuclear submarine.&quot;

President Carter was trusted by /Rickover/ to work on new-technology nuclear submarines.  It took the rise of the know-nothing, don&#039;t-bother-us Eloi to make fun of him and pretend he was stupid. He never did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Folksy, ignorant president? Heard of the Democrat Jimmy Carter?&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes. His BS was from Georgia Tech. Moreover: &#8220;Chosen by Admiral Hyman Rickover for the nuclear submarine program, he was assigned to Schenectady, N.Y., where he took graduate work at Union College in reactor technology and nuclear physics, and served as senior officer of the pre-commissioning crew of the Seawolf, the second nuclear submarine.&#8221;</p>
<p>President Carter was trusted by /Rickover/ to work on new-technology nuclear submarines.  It took the rise of the know-nothing, don&#8217;t-bother-us Eloi to make fun of him and pretend he was stupid. He never did.</p>
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		<title>By: Astrogator&#8217;s Logs &#187; Blog Archive &#187; To the Hard Members of the Truthy SF Club</title>
		<link>http://scienceinmyfiction.com/2010/03/08/sf-goes-mcdonalds-less-taste-more-gristle/comment-page-1/#comment-8024</link>
		<dc:creator>Astrogator&#8217;s Logs &#187; Blog Archive &#187; To the Hard Members of the Truthy SF Club</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Nov 2010 22:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/simf/?p=295#comment-8024</guid>
		<description>[...] In an earlier round, I discussed why I deem it vital that speculative fiction writers are at least familiar with the questing portion of the scientific mindset and with basic scientific principles (you cannot have effortless, instant shapeshifting… you cannot have cracks in black hole event horizons… you cannot transmute elements by drawing pentagrams on your basement floor…), if not with a modicum of knowledge in the domains they explore. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In an earlier round, I discussed why I deem it vital that speculative fiction writers are at least familiar with the questing portion of the scientific mindset and with basic scientific principles (you cannot have effortless, instant shapeshifting… you cannot have cracks in black hole event horizons… you cannot transmute elements by drawing pentagrams on your basement floor…), if not with a modicum of knowledge in the domains they explore. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Astrogator&#8217;s Logs &#187; Blog Archive &#187; SF Goes MacDonald&#8217;s: Less Taste, More Gristle</title>
		<link>http://scienceinmyfiction.com/2010/03/08/sf-goes-mcdonalds-less-taste-more-gristle/comment-page-1/#comment-2225</link>
		<dc:creator>Astrogator&#8217;s Logs &#187; Blog Archive &#187; SF Goes MacDonald&#8217;s: Less Taste, More Gristle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 19:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/simf/?p=295#comment-2225</guid>
		<description>[...] 2: The article is now also on the new blog I Like a Little Science in My [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 2: The article is now also on the new blog I Like a Little Science in My [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mel Green</title>
		<link>http://scienceinmyfiction.com/2010/03/08/sf-goes-mcdonalds-less-taste-more-gristle/comment-page-1/#comment-219</link>
		<dc:creator>Mel Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/simf/?p=295#comment-219</guid>
		<description>Actually, I think I lent that to her once, &amp; she couldn&#039;t get through it. Too much explanation.

I just finally got my copy back from another friend who loved it... so I can reread it. Yay!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I think I lent that to her once, &amp; she couldn&#8217;t get through it. Too much explanation.</p>
<p>I just finally got my copy back from another friend who loved it&#8230; so I can reread it. Yay!</p>
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		<title>By: Athena Andreadis</title>
		<link>http://scienceinmyfiction.com/2010/03/08/sf-goes-mcdonalds-less-taste-more-gristle/comment-page-1/#comment-217</link>
		<dc:creator>Athena Andreadis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/simf/?p=295#comment-217</guid>
		<description>Have your friend read Downbelow Station.  Action non-stop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have your friend read Downbelow Station.  Action non-stop.</p>
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		<title>By: Mel Green</title>
		<link>http://scienceinmyfiction.com/2010/03/08/sf-goes-mcdonalds-less-taste-more-gristle/comment-page-1/#comment-216</link>
		<dc:creator>Mel Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 23:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/simf/?p=295#comment-216</guid>
		<description>Gritty yeah... like all the fur that falls out in the Chanur novels after a harrowing bunch of jumping from system to system. She could win a Hugo for &quot;best depiction of exhaustion.&quot;

I think Cherryh does a consistently good job of finding the golden mean to make a good story. I find a respect for verisimilitude in her fantasy too. When Tristan &amp; company go to war in the &lt;em&gt;Fortress&lt;/em&gt; series, they actually have to pay attention to logistics &amp; supply lines -- how refreshing!  (Seems to me that Tolkien paid attention to that in LOTR too... compare the travel of the Riders of Rohan from Rohan to Minas Tirith in the books as opposed to in the film.)  But a friend of mine who likes quick action finds Cherryh quite boring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gritty yeah&#8230; like all the fur that falls out in the Chanur novels after a harrowing bunch of jumping from system to system. She could win a Hugo for &#8220;best depiction of exhaustion.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think Cherryh does a consistently good job of finding the golden mean to make a good story. I find a respect for verisimilitude in her fantasy too. When Tristan &amp; company go to war in the <em>Fortress</em> series, they actually have to pay attention to logistics &amp; supply lines &#8212; how refreshing!  (Seems to me that Tolkien paid attention to that in LOTR too&#8230; compare the travel of the Riders of Rohan from Rohan to Minas Tirith in the books as opposed to in the film.)  But a friend of mine who likes quick action finds Cherryh quite boring.</p>
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		<title>By: Athena Andreadis</title>
		<link>http://scienceinmyfiction.com/2010/03/08/sf-goes-mcdonalds-less-taste-more-gristle/comment-page-1/#comment-214</link>
		<dc:creator>Athena Andreadis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/simf/?p=295#comment-214</guid>
		<description>I think the golden mean applies (as it does to real life of not only humans but also all life forms).  Both ends of the spectrum discourage creativity: no rules and there is no reason to strive for excellence.  Too many rules and the green shoots get strangled.

Incidentally, I concur that much SF is actually fantasy with spaceships (most traditional space opera falls into this category with Star Wars and BSG as exemplars -- although one of our common favorites, Cherryh, is grittier than most).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the golden mean applies (as it does to real life of not only humans but also all life forms).  Both ends of the spectrum discourage creativity: no rules and there is no reason to strive for excellence.  Too many rules and the green shoots get strangled.</p>
<p>Incidentally, I concur that much SF is actually fantasy with spaceships (most traditional space opera falls into this category with Star Wars and BSG as exemplars &#8212; although one of our common favorites, Cherryh, is grittier than most).</p>
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		<title>By: Athena Andreadis</title>
		<link>http://scienceinmyfiction.com/2010/03/08/sf-goes-mcdonalds-less-taste-more-gristle/comment-page-1/#comment-213</link>
		<dc:creator>Athena Andreadis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/simf/?p=295#comment-213</guid>
		<description>Awww!  Thanks for the lovely words, people!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awww!  Thanks for the lovely words, people!</p>
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		<title>By: Mel Green</title>
		<link>http://scienceinmyfiction.com/2010/03/08/sf-goes-mcdonalds-less-taste-more-gristle/comment-page-1/#comment-210</link>
		<dc:creator>Mel Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/simf/?p=295#comment-210</guid>
		<description>I agree, wonderful stuff! I was already really happy about &lt;em&gt;this&lt;/em&gt; blog, but even happier because it led me to yours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, wonderful stuff! I was already really happy about <em>this</em> blog, but even happier because it led me to yours.</p>
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		<title>By: Mel Green</title>
		<link>http://scienceinmyfiction.com/2010/03/08/sf-goes-mcdonalds-less-taste-more-gristle/comment-page-1/#comment-209</link>
		<dc:creator>Mel Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crossedgenres.com/simf/?p=295#comment-209</guid>
		<description>Jonathan Wondrusch wrote: &lt;em&gt;Things shouldn’t happen in any universe, fantasy or sci fi, because thats how it works. Rules, rules, rules. More rules. I believe that most amateur writers tend to be fast and loose with them because they don’t want to put limitations. Truth is though, that the greater the restrictions, the more creative and imaginative you have to be to solve the issues.&lt;em&gt;

I agree with this for the most part... though I&#039;m not sure of &quot;the &lt;em&gt;greater&lt;/em&gt; the restrictions.&quot;  If the restrictions are &lt;em&gt;too&lt;/em&gt; great, there&#039;s not room for imagination. I don&#039;t think you were actually talking about that extreme -- but some folks seem to take any rules at all as being that extreme. 

I guess I feel that a complete disregard for the &quot;rules&quot; tends to make the writing pretty flaccid &amp; dull. But it also depends on which rules you&#039;re talking about. Rules of science? Rules of internal consistency?  Any good writing is going to have at least the latter, I think.

I think a lot of what we call &quot;science fiction&quot; is really &quot;fantasy&quot; because of its disregard for the rules of science -- witness some of what&#039;s been said here about Battlestar Galactica &amp; the Matrix.  And yet both follow enough conventions of SF that they get labeled as such.  But even the most science-aware SF misses out on some of the science, if only because science is continually evolving. And also no doubt because any writer no matter how science-aware can&#039;t know the entirety of even state-of-the-art science, so might be completely on the ball in some areas of his/her story, but inaccurate in others.  I know for a fact that the stuff I&#039;m writing will suffer from that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan Wondrusch wrote: <em>Things shouldn’t happen in any universe, fantasy or sci fi, because thats how it works. Rules, rules, rules. More rules. I believe that most amateur writers tend to be fast and loose with them because they don’t want to put limitations. Truth is though, that the greater the restrictions, the more creative and imaginative you have to be to solve the issues.</em><em></p>
<p>I agree with this for the most part&#8230; though I&#8217;m not sure of &#8220;the </em><em>greater</em> the restrictions.&#8221;  If the restrictions are <em>too</em> great, there&#8217;s not room for imagination. I don&#8217;t think you were actually talking about that extreme &#8212; but some folks seem to take any rules at all as being that extreme. </p>
<p>I guess I feel that a complete disregard for the &#8220;rules&#8221; tends to make the writing pretty flaccid &amp; dull. But it also depends on which rules you&#8217;re talking about. Rules of science? Rules of internal consistency?  Any good writing is going to have at least the latter, I think.</p>
<p>I think a lot of what we call &#8220;science fiction&#8221; is really &#8220;fantasy&#8221; because of its disregard for the rules of science &#8212; witness some of what&#8217;s been said here about Battlestar Galactica &amp; the Matrix.  And yet both follow enough conventions of SF that they get labeled as such.  But even the most science-aware SF misses out on some of the science, if only because science is continually evolving. And also no doubt because any writer no matter how science-aware can&#8217;t know the entirety of even state-of-the-art science, so might be completely on the ball in some areas of his/her story, but inaccurate in others.  I know for a fact that the stuff I&#8217;m writing will suffer from that!</p>
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